Daf 62b
תְּנַן הָתָם הַכֶּבֶשׁ וְהַמִּזְבֵּחַ שִׁשִּׁים וּשְׁתַּיִם הָנֵי שִׁיתִּין וְאַרְבְּעָה הָווּ נִמְצָא פּוֹרֵחַ אַמָּה עַל יְסוֹד וְאַמָּה עַל סוֹבֵב
וְאִיצְטְרִיךְ לְמִכְתַּב סָבִיב וְאִיצְטְרִיךְ לְמִכְתַּב רָבוּעַ דְּאִי כְּתַב רַחֲמָנָא סָבִיב הֲוָה אָמֵינָא דְּעָגֵיל מִעְגָּל כְּתַב רַחֲמָנָא רָבוּעַ וְאִי כְּתַב רַחֲמָנָא רָבוּעַ הֲוָה אָמֵינָא דַּאֲרִיךְ וְקַטִּין כְּתַב רַחֲמָנָא סָבִיב
אָמַר רַב יְהוּדָה שְׁנֵי כְּבָשִׁים קְטַנִּים יוֹצְאִין מִן הַכֶּבֶשׁ שֶׁבָּהֶן פּוֹנִים לַיְסוֹד וְלַסּוֹבֵב וּמוּבְדָּלִין מִן הַמִּזְבֵּחַ מְלֹא נִימָא מִשּׁוּם שֶׁנֶּאֱמַר סָבִיב וְרַבִּי אֲבָהוּ אָמַר רָבוּעַ
רַב פָּפָּא אָמַר כִּי דָּם מָה דָּם אֲוִיר קַרְקַע מַפְסִיקוֹ אַף בָּשָׂר אֲוִיר קַרְקַע מַפְסִיקוֹ
אָמַר לוֹ כְּשֶׁהוּא זוֹרֵק לְמַעֲרָכָה דְּלוּקָה הוּא זוֹרֵק אוֹ לְמַעֲרָכָה שֶׁאֵינָהּ דְּלוּקָה הוּא זוֹרֵק הֱוֵי אוֹמֵר לַמַּעֲרָכָה דְּלוּקָה הוּא זוֹרֵק הָתָם מִשּׁוּם דְּלָא אֶפְשָׁר
אָמַר לוֹ שֶׁאֲנִי אוֹמֵר עוֹמֵד בְּצַד מַעֲרָכָה וְזוֹרֵק
שָׁאַל רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן יוֹסֵי בֶּן לָקוֹנְיָא אֶת רַבִּי יוֹסֵי אוֹמֵר הָיָה רַבִּי שִׁמְעוֹן בֶּן יוֹחַי אֲוִיר יֵשׁ בֵּין כֶּבֶשׁ לַמִּזְבֵּחַ אָמַר לוֹ וְאַתָּה אִי אַתָּה אוֹמֵר כֵּן וַהֲלֹא כְּבָר נֶאֱמַר וְעָשִׂיתָ עֹלֹתֶיךָ הַבָּשָׂר וְהַדָּם מָה דָּם בִּזְרִיקָה אַף בָּשָׂר בִּזְרִיקָה
הָהוּא מִיבְּעֵי לֵיהּ לְגוּפֵיהּ אִם כֵּן פֹּנִים פֹּנִים לְמָה לִי
וְאֵימָא שְׂמֹאל לַמִּזְרָח לָא סָלְקָא דַּעְתָּךְ דְּתָנֵי רָמֵי בַּר (יְחִזְקִיָּה) [יְחֶזְקֵאל] יָם שֶׁעָשָׂה שְׁלֹמֹה עֹמֵד עַל שְׁנֵים עָשָׂר (עַמּוּדִים) בָּקָר שְׁלֹשָׁה פֹנִים צָפוֹנָה וּשְׁלֹשָׁה פֹנִים יָמָּה וּשְׁלֹשָׁה פֹּנִים נֶגְבָּה וּשְׁלֹשָׁה פֹּנִים מִזְרָחָה כָּל פִּינּוֹת שֶׁאַתָּה פּוֹנֶה לֹא יְהוּ אֶלָּא דֶּרֶךְ יָמִין לַמִּזְרָח
וְתַנָּא מַיְיתֵי לַהּ מֵהָכָא דְּתַנְיָא רַבִּי יְהוּדָה אוֹמֵר וּמַעֲלֹתֵהוּ פְּנוֹת קָדִים כָּל פִּינּוֹת שֶׁאַתָּה פּוֹנֶה לֹא יְהוּ אֶלָּא דֶּרֶךְ יָמִין לַמִּזְרָח
אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבוּעַ כְּתִיב וְהָא מִיבְּעֵי לֵיהּ דִּמְרַבַּע רַבּוֹעֵי מִי כְּתִיב מְרוּבָּע וְלִיטַעְמָיךְ מִי כְּתִיב רָבוּץ אֲמַר לֵיהּ רָבוּעַ כְּתִיב דְּמַשְׁמַע הָכִי וּמַשְׁמַע הָכִי
אֵימָא יָרֵךְ בַּצָּפוֹן וּפָנָיו בַּצָּפוֹן אָמַר רָבָא רָמֵי גַּבְרָא אַאַפֵּיהּ אֲמַר לֵיהּ אַבָּיֵי אַדְּרַבָּה תָּרֵיץ וְאוֹתֵיב גַּבְרָא
תְּנַן הָתָם כֶּבֶשׁ הָיָה לִדְרוֹמָהּ שֶׁל מִזְבֵּחַ אוֹרֶךְ שְׁלֹשִׁים וּשְׁתַּיִם עַל רוֹחַב שֵׁשׁ עֶשְׂרֵה מְנָא הָנֵי מִילֵּי אָמַר רַב הוּנָא אָמַר קְרָא וְשָׁחַט אוֹתוֹ עַל יֶרֶךְ הַמִּזְבֵּחַ צָפוֹנָה שֶׁיְּהֵא יָרֵךְ בְּצָפוֹן וּפָנָיו בַּדָּרוֹם
אָמַר רַבִּי יִרְמְיָה בְּאַמָּה גְּדוּמָה אָמַר רַב יוֹסֵף וְלָאו הַיְינוּ דְּתַנְיָא עַל הָעֵצִים אֲשֶׁר עַל הָאֵשׁ אֲשֶׁר עַל הַמִּזְבֵּחַ שֶׁלֹּא יְהוּ עֵצִים יוֹצְאִין מִן הַמִּזְבֵּחַ כְּלוּם
אָמַר אַבָּיֵי בַּר הוּנָא אָמַר רַב חָמָא בַּר גּוּרְיָא גְּזִירִין שֶׁעָשָׂה מֹשֶׁה אוֹרְכָּן אַמָּה וְרוֹחְבָּן אַמָּה וְעוֹבְיָין כְּמַחַק גּוֹדֶשׁ סְאָה
בְּנֵי קְטוּרָה בְּנֵי אֲחָתֵיהּ דְּרַבִּי טַרְפוֹן הָווּ יָתְבִי קַמֵּיהּ דְּרַבִּי טַרְפוֹן פָּתַח וְאָמַר וַיּוֹסֶף אַבְרָהָם וַיִּקַּח אִשָּׁה וּשְׁמָהּ יוֹחָנִי אָמְרִי לֵיהּ קְטוּרָה כְּתִיב קָרֵי (עֲלֵיהֶם) [עֲלַיְהוּ] בְּנֵי קְטוּרָה
‘the children of Keturah’. (1) The sons of R. Tarfon's sister were sitting before R. Tarfon. (2) Thereupon he quoted: And Abraham took another wife, and her name was Johani. (3) Said they to him: ‘Keturah’ is written. Then he dubbed them ‘the children of Keturah’. (4) R. Abin (5) b. Huna said in R. Hama b. Guria's name: The logs which Moses made (6) were a cubit long and a cubit broad, and their thickness was that of the instrument for leveling off the top of a se'ah. (7) R. Jeremiah observed: [It was measured] with a stumped cubit. (8) Said R. Joseph: Is not that which was taught: Upon the wood that is on the fire which is upon the altar: (9) [this intimates] that the wood must not project at all beyond the altar? (10) We learnt elsewhere: There was an ascent at the south [side] of the altar, thirty-two [cubits] in length by sixteen cubits in breadth. Whence do we know it? (11) — Said R. Huna: Scripture saith, And he shall kill it on the side of the altar northward; (12) [this intimates] that the side must be in the north and the front in the south. (13) Yet say: the side in the north and the face in the north? (14) — Said Raba: Throw a man on his face. (15) Said Abaye to him: On the contrary, let the man sit upright? — It is written, [The altar shall be] rabua’. (16) But surely that is required [to teach] that it must be square? — Is then meruba’ written? (17) And on your reasoning, is then rabuz written? (18) Rather, rabua’ is written, which implies both, (19) Now, a Tanna infers it from the following. For it was taught. R. Judah said: And the steps thereof shall look toward the east: (20) every turning which you take must be rightward to the east. (21) Yet say: must be leftward to the east? (22) — You cannot think so. For Rami b. Ezekiel recited: The sea which Solomon made ‘stood upon twelve oxen, three looking toward the north, and three looking toward the west, and three looking toward the south, and three looking toward the east: (23) [this teaches that] every turning which you take must be to the right, eastward. (24) But that is required for its own purpose (25) — If so, why must ‘looking toward’ be repeated? (26) R. Simeon b. Jose b. Lakunia asked R. Jose: Did R. Simeon b. Yohai maintain that there was a space between the ascent and the altar? (27) — And do you not maintain so? he replied. Surely it is said, And thou shalt offer thy burnt-offerings, the flesh and the blood: (28) [this intimates that] just as the blood requires throwing, (29) so does the flesh require throwing? (30) I assert that he stood at the side of the place of the pile and threw it, he answered. (31) Said he to him: When he threw, did he throw on to a burning pile or on to a pile that was not burning? Surely on to a burning pile, and there it would be impossible [to do otherwise]. (32) R. Papa said: [It must be] like the blood. Just as [in the case of the] blood, the air-space above the pavement interposed, so [in the case of the] flesh, the air-space above the pavement interposed. (33) Rab Judah said: Two small stairways branched off from the [major] ascent, by which one turned to the base and to the terrace. and these were separated from the altar by a hairsbreadth, because ‘round about’ is said. (34) Whilst R. Abbahu quoted rabua’[foursquare]. (35) Now, both ‘round about’ and ‘rabua’’ must be written. For if the Divine Law wrote ‘round about’ [only].I would say that it can be circular; therefore the Divine Law wrote rabua’. Whilst if the Divine Law wrote rabua’ [only], I would say that it could be long and narrow; (36) hence the Divine Law wrote ‘round about’. (37) We learnt elsewhere: The ascent and the altar were sixty-two [cubits]. But they were sixty four? (38) — Hence it is found that it overhung a cubit of the base and a cubit of the balcony. (39)
(1). ↑ Gen. XXV, 4. You are indeed Abraham's descendants, but not his true Jewish descendants through Isaac and Jacob.
(2). ↑ In silence. So he misquoted a verse in order to evoke a comment.
(3). ↑ Ibid. I. The last word of course is wrong.
(4). ↑ Rashi: ignoramuses, who could not discuss halachah.
(5). ↑ Emended text (Sh. M.). Cur, edd. Abaye.
(6). ↑ Two logs were placed on the altar fire pile for the morning Tamid (q.v. Glos.) and the evening Tamid; v. Yoma 26b.
(7). ↑ A se'ah was a measure. In buying and selling corn this measure was filled, and the top or pile was leveled down by a stick, called a ‘strike’. — Sh. M. observes that as the place of the pile itself on Moses’ altar was only one cubit square, these logs must have been stood endways upon it, with wood chips between to assist the fire to catch on.
(8). ↑ I.e., rather shorter than a cubit. ‘Aruch reads gerumah instead of gedumah, which reverses the meaning: with a generous cubit, i.e., slightly more than a cubit. This makes the difficulty that follows more plausible.
(9). ↑ Lev. I, 8.
(10). ↑ I.e. beyond the place of the pile. Rashi: why then must it be a stumped cubit; it could be exactly a cubit? Tosaf. And Sh. M.: how then can it be a ‘generous’ cubit? — The objection remains unanswered.
(11). ↑ That it had to be on the south side.
(12). ↑ Ibid. 11.
(13). ↑ Yerek, translated ‘side’ literally means ‘thigh’, hence the legs. Thus the altar must be like a man lying with his legs stretched northward and his face in the south. The side of the altar having this ascent would naturally be the front.
(14). ↑ Like a man sitting upright.
(15). ↑ It must be like a man lying face downwardhence the face in the opposite direction to the legs.
(16). ↑ E.V. ‘foursquare’. Ex. XXVII, 1. He connects rabua’ with Raba’, to lie down, and interprets: the altar shall be like a man lying down.
(17). ↑ Which definitely means square and nothing else.
(18). ↑ Which equally means lying down and nothing else.
(19). ↑ Square and lying down.
(20). ↑ Ezek. XLIII, 17.
(21). ↑ The text refers to the altar, and is interpreted to mean that the altar must be so constructed that when the priest, standing by the altar, has to turn round the side, he will turn right, and go eastward. That is possible only if the ascent is at the south.
(22). ↑ Which would necessitate the ascent on the north.
(23). ↑ II. Chron. IV, 4.
(24). ↑ Since the order here is first north and then west, and when a man is facing the north, he must turn right in order to go to the west.
(25). ↑ To describe the position of the oxen.
(26). ↑ In each case. The word literally means ‘turning toward’, and the repetition is interpreted as in the text.
(27). ↑ The ascent did not come right up to the altar, but left a gap between.
(28). ↑ Deut. XII, 27.
(29). ↑ I.e., dashing against the altar.
(30). ↑ On to the altar. Consequently, a priest standing at the top of the ascent could not place the flesh on the altar, but had to throw it, which implies that there was a gap.
(31). ↑ This would not necessitate a gap.
(32). ↑ Since the wood was burning, the priest obviously could not go right up to it, but had to stand at a distance and throw it. But in that case, since it was impossible to do otherwise, no text would be required. Hence the text must teach that there was a gap between the ascent and the altar, not that there was one between the priest and the pile.
(33). ↑ Which would not be the case if he stood at the side of the pile.
(34). ↑ Which implies that it must be possible to encompass the altar itself, even if only by drawing a thread about it. But if the ascent actually joined the altar, this could not be done.
(35). ↑ Which likewise implies that the altar stood, unattached, as a square edifice.
(36). ↑ I.e., I could translate rabua’= rectangular, but not necessarily square.
(37). ↑ Implying that all its sides must be equal.
(38). ↑ Since each was thirty-two.
(39). ↑ Cf. supra 54a.
(1). ↑ Gen. XXV, 4. You are indeed Abraham's descendants, but not his true Jewish descendants through Isaac and Jacob.
(2). ↑ In silence. So he misquoted a verse in order to evoke a comment.
(3). ↑ Ibid. I. The last word of course is wrong.
(4). ↑ Rashi: ignoramuses, who could not discuss halachah.
(5). ↑ Emended text (Sh. M.). Cur, edd. Abaye.
(6). ↑ Two logs were placed on the altar fire pile for the morning Tamid (q.v. Glos.) and the evening Tamid; v. Yoma 26b.
(7). ↑ A se'ah was a measure. In buying and selling corn this measure was filled, and the top or pile was leveled down by a stick, called a ‘strike’. — Sh. M. observes that as the place of the pile itself on Moses’ altar was only one cubit square, these logs must have been stood endways upon it, with wood chips between to assist the fire to catch on.
(8). ↑ I.e., rather shorter than a cubit. ‘Aruch reads gerumah instead of gedumah, which reverses the meaning: with a generous cubit, i.e., slightly more than a cubit. This makes the difficulty that follows more plausible.
(9). ↑ Lev. I, 8.
(10). ↑ I.e. beyond the place of the pile. Rashi: why then must it be a stumped cubit; it could be exactly a cubit? Tosaf. And Sh. M.: how then can it be a ‘generous’ cubit? — The objection remains unanswered.
(11). ↑ That it had to be on the south side.
(12). ↑ Ibid. 11.
(13). ↑ Yerek, translated ‘side’ literally means ‘thigh’, hence the legs. Thus the altar must be like a man lying with his legs stretched northward and his face in the south. The side of the altar having this ascent would naturally be the front.
(14). ↑ Like a man sitting upright.
(15). ↑ It must be like a man lying face downwardhence the face in the opposite direction to the legs.
(16). ↑ E.V. ‘foursquare’. Ex. XXVII, 1. He connects rabua’ with Raba’, to lie down, and interprets: the altar shall be like a man lying down.
(17). ↑ Which definitely means square and nothing else.
(18). ↑ Which equally means lying down and nothing else.
(19). ↑ Square and lying down.
(20). ↑ Ezek. XLIII, 17.
(21). ↑ The text refers to the altar, and is interpreted to mean that the altar must be so constructed that when the priest, standing by the altar, has to turn round the side, he will turn right, and go eastward. That is possible only if the ascent is at the south.
(22). ↑ Which would necessitate the ascent on the north.
(23). ↑ II. Chron. IV, 4.
(24). ↑ Since the order here is first north and then west, and when a man is facing the north, he must turn right in order to go to the west.
(25). ↑ To describe the position of the oxen.
(26). ↑ In each case. The word literally means ‘turning toward’, and the repetition is interpreted as in the text.
(27). ↑ The ascent did not come right up to the altar, but left a gap between.
(28). ↑ Deut. XII, 27.
(29). ↑ I.e., dashing against the altar.
(30). ↑ On to the altar. Consequently, a priest standing at the top of the ascent could not place the flesh on the altar, but had to throw it, which implies that there was a gap.
(31). ↑ This would not necessitate a gap.
(32). ↑ Since the wood was burning, the priest obviously could not go right up to it, but had to stand at a distance and throw it. But in that case, since it was impossible to do otherwise, no text would be required. Hence the text must teach that there was a gap between the ascent and the altar, not that there was one between the priest and the pile.
(33). ↑ Which would not be the case if he stood at the side of the pile.
(34). ↑ Which implies that it must be possible to encompass the altar itself, even if only by drawing a thread about it. But if the ascent actually joined the altar, this could not be done.
(35). ↑ Which likewise implies that the altar stood, unattached, as a square edifice.
(36). ↑ I.e., I could translate rabua’= rectangular, but not necessarily square.
(37). ↑ Implying that all its sides must be equal.
(38). ↑ Since each was thirty-two.
(39). ↑ Cf. supra 54a.
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